Winter Tires - Size Matters?

"ZHP Sparky, the 5th" (e30s2k) 11/22/2019 at 15:22 • Filed to: None

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Wife’s 2016 Outback has stock tire size of 225/ 6 5 /17. I have a set of Michelin X-Ice snow tires we bought when we had a Crosstrek that are 225/ 55 /17. Do you guys see any issue with putting these tires on the Outback for the winter?

Picture of 3 red wagons (?) for your time. Subaru is the car in question here…I took the picture mainly because of the super rad double-rear-wipered Camry wagon (inside had leather seats, and wheels on it are off a Buick).

  I called the local tire shop and made an appointment – they said technically they will do it (yay guys, thanks for agreeing to take my money!) but warned that it is a drastic difference and will affect handling characteristics.

Does Oppo think this is something to be concerned about? Would you go ahead with the swap instead of sticking with factory all season rubber?

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 11/22/2019 at 15:30

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That’s just going to affect the OD of the tire. Your speedometer will be off a fraction, your ride quality will be a little worse, but your handling might be a bit better due to less sidewall flex.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 11/22/2019 at 15:32

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Exactly what I figured, handling couldn’t possibly get worse...outside of tire just being squishier being a snow tire, so maybe it will just even out. 

Thisismydisplayname > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 11/22/2019 at 15:33

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Calculator says your Speedo will read 65 but you’ll be traveling 63.2 mph

Thisismydisplayname > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 11/22/2019 at 15:34

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thejustache > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 11/22/2019 at 15:38

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I more or less did this for a winter when my Saabaru got hit by a deer and I switched to an Outback XT, taking my snow tires with me. Things to note:

There is an almost 2" drop in diameter. I honestly don’t know if you’ll see a huge handling change as the widths are the same, but your speedometer will read about 64 mph when you’re actually going 60, etc. You’ll be doing more revs at cruising speed, so expect a slight drop in mpgs. Your gaps in your wheel wells will look extra huge, and your ground clearence will drop by about an inch.

All that said, if your choice is between driving all winter on crappy all seasons vs. too small winter tires I’d still choose to put them on. This is the choice I made for a winter and I don’t regret it. I got the right size winter tires mounted on the rims the following year, but there is one thing I miss in doing so - I definitely saw an increase in acceleration with the effectively shorter final drive.

Just make sure you have all 4 tires the same size, because mix and matching tires with AWD is a sure fire way to burn out diffs. Other than that, go to town, just be aware of the side effects!

Boxer_4 > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 11/22/2019 at 15:39

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This is what you’re looking at. It will be a noticeable difference. Less ground clearance, speedometer not reading correctly for sure. It will definitely effect handling, but it might be a bit better.  Can you do it? Yes, but it isn’t ideal.

Also, are you swapping over just the tires, or wheels and tires? The Crosstrek uses a 5x100 bolt circle for the wheels, while that generation Outback uses a 5x114.3 bolt circle. Wheels used on a Crosstrek will not fit that Outback.

Bourbon&JellyBeans > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 11/22/2019 at 15:41

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It’s possible to do and you’d get away with it fine if you’re in a pinch , but the car will be at least slightly worse in acceleration, braking, handling, and fuel efficiency. Your speedometer and odometer will also be wrong.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 11/22/2019 at 15:41

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Heres what I always do to consider alternative tire sizes:

Nothing is outrageously different, its just smaller. Less sidewall is generally riskier in the winter for potholes and other damage but otherwise seems fine.

https://tiresize.com/calculator/

Boxer_4 > Thisismydisplayname 11/22/2019 at 15:47

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The original size is using a 17” wheel though, so it will run just under 61 mph when reading 65 mph. 

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Thisismydisplayname 11/22/2019 at 15:51

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Many thanks for all this detail! It’s just switching the tires over. Was super bummed when we switched to the Outback and learnt that Subaru had changed up their bolt patterns...WHY?!

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > thejustache 11/22/2019 at 15:52

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This is the info I knew I would find on Oppo, many thanks! I was aware of all those changes, which honestly aren’t that big a deal for us. The car just gets used around town for errands for the most part, no commuting duty, no long trips etc. Losing a little bit of MPGs and ground clearance isn’t going to change anything for us, the rest of the side effects won’t really matter at all. 

shop-teacher > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 11/22/2019 at 15:53

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That's pretty close. I'd go with it.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 11/22/2019 at 15:53

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“but warned that it is a drastic difference and will affect handling characteristics.”

*rolls eyes*

I don’t think that’s the end of the world.

It will also ride a bit more firmly and it will feel like it accelerates slightly faster. And your speedometer will read faster than you’re actually going.

But I completely disagree that will be a “drastic difference” in day to day driving.

Edit: I incorrectly stated it was a 1.8% difference when it’s actually more like 6.3%. I still don’t think it’s the end of the world.

Use up these winter tires that you already have and then replace them with the correct size once they’re worn out.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Bourbon&JellyBeans 11/22/2019 at 15:56

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As someone else had suggested – outside of fuel efficiency, speedometer, and losing some ground clearance the other stuff you mentioned should actually improve I think. Less sidewall = smaller tire = lighter tire = better acceleration, braking, and handling.

Boxer_4 > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 11/22/2019 at 15:59

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They are all getting bigger. The current Impreza, Crosstrek, and the BRZ are the only holdouts. If it makes you feel better, the STI has run 5x114.3 since the 2005 model year. 

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Thisismydisplayname 11/22/2019 at 16:09

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Wife has a tendency to speed without even realizing it, so perhaps this is an unintended benefit :) 

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 11/22/2019 at 16:12

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Exactly my sentiments. They’re perfectly good tires we invested in just 1 winter ago…and all the side effects are either minor or non even a factor to consider for us. It’d be an utter waste to toss/sell these perfectly good tires…or worse, to just keep the crappy all seasons on for the winter when I have these perfectly good snow tires ready to go.

Memehhhh > Bourbon&JellyBeans 11/22/2019 at 21:01

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Acceleration would actually increase top speed would decrease...

Memehhhh > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 11/22/2019 at 21:08

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You’ll put more miles on your odometer, for every 10000 miles you’ll actually only driven 9378.71 miles. You’ll short yourself 621.29 after 100k that’s 6212 miles wasted. Can't speak for the Subaru but some cars stability control and abs system will also be off which could cause an issue. I would at least test some hard braking in a parking lot on a wet day to test it.

Scottie > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 11/22/2019 at 21:29

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You’ve already had these tires on your previous Subaru so you know how that car drov e with them so it’s not like it’s a complete unknown on how they’re going to feel...go for it and know that you’re operating on safer tires in the inclement weather. Your family and all the other drivers on the road will be safer for it!

Odddoylerules > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 11/22/2019 at 22:36

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Actually what i was here to say.  The squishy snow tire should minimize the negatives that come with shorter, generally stiffer sidewalls

MrStenbom > thejustache 11/23/2019 at 01:32

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And remember that the smaller tires have a lower load index.  If you get in a wreck, expect to be sued

cluelessk > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 11/23/2019 at 01:38

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Depending on your driving conditions you might actually get better mileage.

I swapped transmissions this year for one with a shorter gear ratio and it gets better mileage than it used to in certain conditions.

MrStenbom > thejustache 11/23/2019 at 01:43

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Plus the load index is wrong 

ohioplayer1177 > Thisismydisplayname 11/23/2019 at 14:46

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Your rim size  is off bro.. one is 17 and one says 16. The size difference is much larger than that is showing

Thisismydisplayname > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 11/23/2019 at 20:31

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A little worse, but it will still work.  Did the same on my S8 with winters from my S4, speedo was off at least 5mph.  But as long as all 4 are same diameter the car won’t care.

Thisismydisplayname > ohioplayer1177 11/23/2019 at 20:31

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Oops yeah see that now.  I corrected.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Scottie 11/25/2019 at 11:59

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At the end of the day I guess the tire shop is always just trying to make a sale. I’d be more inclined to listen to them when they provide input, if they didn’t pull stuff like this.

I have a perfectly good set of barely used high end winter tires – the likelihood of me just keeping the all seasons currently on the car (which would absolutely be a less safe decision) is much higher than me just ditching my tires to buy a set of new ones from them.

If they properly calculated that logic and saved me from the sales pitch I’m much more likely to hear them out if/when they actually do find something my car could use refreshing on and give them my business.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Memehhhh 11/25/2019 at 12:01

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Yeah given that this car drives maybe 1-2k miles each winter total, I’m not particularly concerned about this 

Will definitely give the car a bit of a driving test after mounting them to make sure everything works as intended. 

Grindintosecond > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 12/12/2019 at 17:43

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The winter tires on my truck are awesome. on anything buy dry. Please think abou tthat braking scenario. Getting hard on brakes I can start hearing the tread slip, a low growl of skidding begins, WAY WAY before it does on normal tires. And those are only 1 season old snows and 15k on the normal tires...So anything tha impacts that you should think about.

My thoughts on snows were if I was getting wheels, i would ge tthe smallest diameter that fit, and the narrowest snow tire the factory allows as well for max contact patch psi.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Grindintosecond 12/12/2019 at 19:05

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Thankfully I live in Oregon...so especially in wither the roads not being wet aren’t really a concern. Although it has been an unusually dry season thus far.